Dec 26, 2025
3 min read
Duffer Brothers Stranger Things 5 Volume 2 spoilers - Will's big episode, which explains the Upside Down, the Abyss, and that split.
Stranger Things 5 Volume 2 Spoiler Interview: The Duffer Brothers Explore the Origins of Sub-Down, [SPOILER] Will, This Breakup, and Why Eleven Eleven Didn't Have a Happy Ending
SPOILER ALERT: This story contains spoilers from Stranger Things Season 5, Volume 2, which is currently streaming on Netflix.
After four and a half seasons of questions raised by "Stranger Things" in Volume 2 of the show's fifth and final season, Matt and Ross Duffer provided plenty of answers, setting the tragic stakes that could lead to the series finale.That deadly new question — can Eleven (Millie Bobby Brown) survive without her dummy in a world where future weapons of mass destruction aren't the main ingredient — will be answered on December 31.The series finale, "The Rightside Up", will be available when available.
But for now, let's list the big pieces of Stranger Things mythology that we understand after watching Shock Jock, Escape From Camazotz, and The Bridge, and how the show continues to connect the emotional bonds of this tight-knit group of friends who become one big, extended family.
Most importantly, Will (Noah Schnapp) finally—finally!—shows up to prepare for the final battle with his mother Joyce (Winona Ryder), his brother Jonathan (Charlie Heaton), and his friends Henry/Vecna/Ann (Jamie Campbell Bower).In "The Witcher", the climax of Volume 1, Will is set on November 6, 1983, after his abduction into Heaven.He uses his connection with Vecna. Will uses his eleven equal powers to destroy and stop the Demogorgons in mid-air, resulting in his bloody episode (which was not the last episode of the episode) due to his efforts.
Will gets his powers directly from Vienna: The first scene of Volume 1 reveals that Workna has sent him to the tunnels under Hawkins with his mind 2, Workna Uses wants to spy again to see where Max (Sadie Sink) is - a hospital bed in Hawkin's - what do you ask him to welcome."You'll never lose me," Joyce tells him you want, as Jonathan and then all of Will's friends say the same, extend your love and support for him before diving into a hug.
Other interpersonal storylines resolved in Volume 2 are the ongoing questions about what would happen to Nancy (Natalia Dyer) and Jonathan as a couple, and why exactly Dustin (Gaten Matarazzo) is so angry at Steve (Joe Keery).After Nancy shoots what turns out to be the exotic substance holding them together in reverse, it causes a full-blown meltdown that threatens to drown them in shit.So Nancy and Jonathan get real with each other, admitting everything from his hatred of The Clash to the fact that he never applied to Emerson for college (and that she knew it).Jonathan takes out the engagement ring he was carrying in a John Coltrane tape and says, "Nancy Wheeler, won't you marry me?"They stay connected forever, of course, but now only as friends.
Speaking of friends, Steve and Dustin break up in anger after a physical fight in the studio's basement.But after hearing a commotion upstairs, Steve ran up the stairs to help Nancy.After losing Eddie trying to win, Dustin is devastated that he can't lose Steve.Steve hugged Dustin as he cried.himself, and finally realized why he had to protect Dustbin from getting hurt again by pushing himself forward.
Regarding the biggest mysteries of "Stranger Things", it was Dustin who discovered, after finding the journal of Dr. Brenner (Matthew Modine), that upside down is not the world itself or a dimension, but rather a wormhole: a bridge to another world, which Dustin calls "The Pit". The Pit, that red, Mars-like space we have seen before, is where Eleven sent Henry when he was a child in Hawkins Lab after showing him that she wanted him close to her in her plot to change (aka destroy!) the world.This is where Henry turned into Vecna, and where, on Brenner's instructions, eleven found Henry.using his power, created the Upside Down."When you remotely contact the Pit, a bridge forms," Dustin told Eleven and the rest of the group as they came up with their plan."And ever since then, Henry and his army of monsters have been using it to cross back to Hawkins."The Pit is also where Vecna retreated after his defeat in Season 4, Dustin said, to "lick his wounds" - which is why Eleven couldn't find him.
The show also begins to reveal what Henry's powers were like before the Creel family moved to Hawkins in the late 1950s.Max and Holly (Nell Fisher) travel through Henry's memories to extract them from Vecna's mindscape, which Holly called Camazotz, using the terminology from her favorite book, "A Wrinkle in Time."They arrive at the bottom of a mine shaft, and watch as young Henry encounters a panicked stranger protecting a silver briefcase - he shoots Henry in the hand so that Henry, just a child, beats him to death with a rock.(This development is indicated in the play "Stranger Things: The First Shadow", when Brenner, Henry's guardian after he killed his parents, mentions that Henry was found in a cave in Nevada after missing on his 8th birthday. After that, Brenner says, Henry was different.) Henry opens the case, but we don't see what happens to Holly."You'll get the answers to those questions in the final episode."
Henry's powers (and their transmission) are pivotal in Eleven's series finale.Kali/Eight (Linnea Berthelsen) reveals that she was trapped in Eleven's military lab because Dr. Kai gave her blood to pregnant women in hopes that the fetus would eventually develop her telepathic abilities.Callie tells Eleven how she found out that Brenner also infected the biological mother of all the children in the Hawkins lab with Henry's blood - as a result.Eleven became his perfect replicator (other children also develop powers)."They'll find you," says Callie. "They'll make more. Like Henry."
Those are the elements of "Right Party Up," Duffers said.Was Kali right when she said that she and eleven should sit back in the Upside Down while it was destroyed, removing the threat that they would be used as weapons again?Or was Mike (Finn Wolfhard) right when he told Eleven that they were the ones who decided how things would end?"You, me, Lucas, Will and Dustin," Mike told him."Because this is our story."
"How can there be a happy ending here?"Matt Duffery asks sarcastically."That's the question going into the final."
In the interview below, the Duffers delve into that question, as well as writing Will's upcoming exit scene when he decides what the Upside Down is, Henry's backstory, how Max can help Eleven in the series finale — and more.
Will's Coming Out Scene!In the first volume, we talked about how you want Will to "start to accept himself" so he can gain the power he needs to access his powers.Did you always know that Will wanted to have a big exit scene with everyone leading up to the final battle?
Ross Duffer: It's coming out is something we've talked about and wanted to do for a very long time.It was originally going to be in Season 4 and we just realized we didn't have a chance to do it properly.And I'm glad we didn't, because it really gave us time to work on it for a whole season—this one season.And yes, it's starting to embrace what we saw in Season 1.
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But he realized there was something else Vegna could use—I mean, he hadn't told anyone about it.And that led to the scene that ended up coming out.First, Joyce was supposed to be in the original draft of the plan.And the scene didn't exactly hit.We realized that Joyce was an important part of it, but he really had to do it in front of everyone.
How did you work with Noah Schnapp while writing that scene and on the day it was shot?
Matt Duffer: Ross and I spent more time writing that scene, certainly than any other this year - if not ever.We were very concerned about getting it right.A lot went into it.I mean, we were definitely worried about how it was going to go with everybody.But we weren't as nervous as handing it over to Noah.Because in the end, you have to agree with him and be honest with him.We were really writing it for Noah and for them.He wrote to us in tears after reading it, so it worked well for him and resonated with him.
On this day, to be honest, there wasn't much direction.Noah spent a lot of time - I mean, months - preparing for that scene, that time.Fortunately, this script has been done well before.I know he's done a lot of work for himself.It was very difficult that day, because not only are you doing this situation that you know is the most important thing for your season, you are doing it on the floor in front of the crowd, but more importantly your fellow players.And everyone was there for him.The only thing we said was, "Where do you want us to start? Where do you want the camera to be?"
And a lot of it is the first shot.It's just one of those moments you always wait for when you work with an actor - it was incredibly real.It didn't feel like he was acting.I think Noah completely lost himself in this scene and that's what the show is all about.
Will doesn't really say, "I'm gay" — he presents his journey in different ways.Can you talk about how you want him to express himself?
Ross Duffer: For us, we just tried to make sure that the scene was relatable to Will and unique to the scene coming out.For us, it's about fear - because that's what Vecna does.He is a victim of fear, which allows us to explore someone like Max, who faces trauma and depression, or in this case, Will.
The fear that Vecna talks about feels really real and grounded to Will, which isn't about everyone mocking him or being mean to him.The fact that everyone is slowly backing away from him.To talk about it like that, and then get peace from them—if that was there, the arc of the scene felt meaningful, and it was very specific to both Vecna and Will as a character.That's when it really clicked, and that's why it helped that everyone was there, not just Joyce.
Matt Duffer: "I don't like girls."And that happened after we cast other actors, my friends: It's that they are so similar in every way.He talks about what they have in common, that there is no difference between them, that at the end of the day there is no difference.They are the same people.There is only one thing that is different about it.This is something he is afraid to share with them.
Change the subject!When, in writing the show, you decided that there are two different things, Up Down and Abyss?
Matt Duffer: That was early, as far as I could tell.همه چیز در فصل 1 بود: نتفلیکس فقط از ما می خواست که اسطوره شناسی را برای آنها توضیح دهیم زیرا در ابتدا بسیار سختگیر بودیم، "ما نمی خواهیم آن را در سریال توضیح دهیم. ما دوست داریم که یک راز وجود دارد و شما تا پایان فصل چیزهای زیادی نمی دانید."They said: This is good, but we want to know.We spent a lot of time figuring out exactly what the Upside Down is.We wrote a mythical 20-page document.It wasn't called the Abyss back then.Then it was called X, which was a reference to the Ninja Turtles.
But yeah, it's been there for a while, it's been baked.We've been hiding these cards for so long; we've been hiding these cards.It's such a relief to be able to show our hands here.
Can you talk about creating the life or death stakes for Eleven before the series finale?That if she survives, the army will keep hunting her and get more out of her through Henry's blood?
Ross Duffer: This is one of the reasons we want to bring Callie back—she's had a really dual threat during the run of Stranger Things.That's the supernatural threat Eternal presents this season.But the military has always been a threat, from the first season onward.Even when Brenner is gone, he is constantly replaced by someone else.In this case, in season 5, by Kay.So we needed Callie to represent a maybe more pessimistic, but maybe more realistic version, compared to Mike's worldview of having butterflies and rainbows.And Callie says, "How is this going to work? And what's the solution here so you can live a normal life?"That's a really huge part of Eleven's journey this season.
So did Eleven create the Upside Down?Because it's an argument we've had since season 4.
Matt Duffer: Oh!Yes.The answer is yes.It's not his fault, I say!
It was Brenner's fault.
Matt Duffer: He was forced to do it.
When did you get the idea that Brenner used Henry's blood to create more Henrys - with El being the most successful manifestation of this - possibly as a weapon during the Cold War?
Matt Duffer: I think that's what happened when we were working on the play and Season 4.Because a lot of it is connected to Henry, in One.When we started to really explore that, we felt it was interesting to use that to explain and find out where these powers actually come from.
Is it possible Eleven won't get Henry's blood?
Matt Duffer: The idea is no, because we like that it's something that's in her DNA.It is immutable.There is no magic antidote to solve this problem.And we like it because it just creates a very complicated, messy situation.
It's very easy to say, "Hey, we're going to fight the villain and defeat evil!"But even if they succeed and survive, on the other side there is another, almost black, very difficult question.
How is it that Steve, of all people, got into the ultimate plan of what they were going to do?
Ross Duffer: Well, Steve has grown a lot over the years.And especially this season, he has been beaten a little bit by Dustin.It's kind of after a lot of time;he's like Donnie in The Big Lebowski sometimes, where he's just a step or two behind.But Steve is a smart guy, and I think he's shown that over the years.When we were working on that penultimate episode, we thought, "Who better to come up with the final plan - and perhaps the most important plan - ever than Steve 'The Hairy' Harrington?"
Matt Duffer: And his favorite childhood story was "Jack and the Beanstalk."That is something else.
Is Abyss/Dimension X, the other world Henry is in, the first place he entered in his childhood?
Dafer Mathematics: Correct.I.If you never called it dimension X - maybe this was in a script, and maybe we still prefer to keep things as confusing as possible.
Shawn Levy told my colleague Jenny Maas in the upcoming autopsy that the answer is no if they are the same.I said ask you!He said he doesn't think the Abyss is Dimension X.
Matt Duffer: I’m gonna have to text him and clarify this for him.
A man with a bag that young Henry meets in the mine. Is there more of a story about how Henry got his power that day that we will see at the end of the series?
Ross Duffer: Yeah, we'll check the bag again.You will find the answers to those questions in the last episode.
Matt Duffer: You've only seen half of the memory required.
When you stopped the show, I wanted to ask about the other beats you wanted in volume 2. We talked about Will coming out - Nancy and Jonathan mulling over themselves, Dustin and Steve making up.Can you just talk about tying the strings and what you feel is important?
Ross Duffer: It was very important to us that all of our characters could really resolve these tensions and conflicts in the final battle.Everyone is working on the same page and these conflicts are external or internal conflicts with others.Because in our opinion, if the party is really going to defeat this great evil, everyone has to try as hard as they can and be on the same page.That is why it was important to resolve those tensions and conflicts.Only one left, really.
Matt Duffer: The Eleven.The Eleven is like a big loose end that wasn't resolved in the finale.
Meaning, can Eleven survive and the world be safe?
Matt Duffer: Yeah, exactly right. How can there be a happy ending here? That's the question that goes into the finale. Is Mike right or is Cali right?
Can you talk about how you resolved the Nancy-Jonathan thing?Like a "I chose myself" situation?
Matt Duffer: Yes, that was probably the second longest scene we spent on.It's a pretty long scene;It's complicated, what they go through.It's very messy, because they love each other so much, but we always felt at the end of the day that they had to let each other go in order to grow like people and be free.
But at the same time, there is a real - and I think many people are facing this - crisis, in the sense that they are involved in something special and in their case it is challenging.And how can someone understand them in this way, let's say that Jonathan understood Nancy or vice versa, after he didn't do that?Can they relate to someone as meaningful as this?But also, how do you grow as a person yourself?You need that independence.
So that was the idea behind the scene and what we really wanted to explore.We had been planning to get there for a while now, just trying to figure out how to express exactly what was challenging.But we're proud of that scene and especially how good Charlie and Natalya are.
What is that goo, and why did it stop falling, or whatever it was doing?
Ross Duffer: We just want to put Jonathan and Nancy in a situation where they think they're going to die - and of course they don't.But the back story is that when large matter, or dark matter, is disturbed, it disturbs the environment around, in this case, the laboratory, causing it to melt.But at one point - as you saw earlier in episode 5, when Jonathan and Nancy are on the upper levels of the lab - they see that this goo, this molten substance, has le.At one point it is difficult.And in this case we show how long it is.
Matt Duffer: You can think of it like the Sun: the exotic matter is circular, and as it closes in time, fusion slows down and stops.The nightmare scenario for Jonathan and Nancy will end like the soldiers you saw in the previous episode, where they get trapped.
You answered many questions in points 5, 6 and 7, but...
Matt Duffer: The table is set, so to speak, until the finale.But the big thing is specifically Henry's story and his relationship with the Mind Flayer.So those are the two areas that I think are going to be the most revealing or the most impactful as we move into the final episode.
How can Max be useful after spending a year and a half inside the Eternal Spirit?
Ross Duffer: It's very useful because he knows that she knows his memories and Eleven goes here - she goes into his mind or Camazotz to fight him.So I think if Max hadn't spent all that time there learning how to do it, this final battle would have been almost impossible.
The last time we spoke, you still had work to do, and you weren't there yet in terms of feeling like this experience was coming to an end.where are you now
Ross Duffer: Well, we have nothing else to do!
Matt Duffer: It seems strange.We finished last week – or it was taken away from us last week.I mean, we'd work on it for another year if we could.
This sounds very strange.On the other hand, we've been working on it for three years, and it's really -- it's the right time to release it.We're glad people finally saw it.
This interview has been edited and shortened.
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• Duffer Brothers spoilers for all of Volume 1
• Noah Schnapp when changed to [Spoiler] in Volume 1
• Sadie Sink on Max's lead role in Volume 1
• Neil Fisher played Holly Wheeler in Season 5
• The 'Stranger Thudger' in the last days of the show
• of "Stranger Things" October 15 Facts about Duffers
• Cara Buono Karen's Kick-ass Hero Moment (Antama)
• Duffer Brothers na spinoffu 'Stranger Things'
• Linda Hamilton for becoming Millie Bobby Brown's "biggest fan."
• Shawn Levy o 'Sticing the Landing' za 5. sezonu
• David Harbor explains how he changed 'Stranger Things'
